Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
GM Super News Ticker

GM’s Path to an All-Electric, Zero Emissions Future

7 posts in this topic

General Motors Chairman and CEO Mary Barra spoke at the annual CERAWeek energy conference in Houston today. Here is a copy of her prepared remarks.

View the full article

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
   


Zero emissions? Was the electricity to charge battery generated by coal, oil or nuclear power, which is 90+% of energy generated in US! The all electric car simply moves the emissions from location A to location B. The only emission free AND SAFE power source is hydro power. Lots of workers have died falling of wind turbine towers building/servicing. Solar power? Does not work so great at night.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Bobby MSME said:

Zero emissions? Was the electricity to charge battery generated by coal, oil or nuclear power, which is 90+% of energy generated in US! The all electric car simply moves the emissions from location A to location B. The only emission free AND SAFE power source is hydro power. Lots of workers have died falling of wind turbine towers building/servicing. Solar power? Does not work so great at night.

Haha Bobby..couldn't agree with you more! I've been saying that for years. Don't forget the pollution caused by battery disposal with all that nasty stuff in batteries that will need to be replaced every 5 years or so. Gas powered cars are now much more efficient than they were even 5 years ago and the emissions are mostly CO2 which is NOT pollution and the vegetation..trees etc need it to produce our oxygen...only car pollution is the carbon monoxide and that is now emitted in VERY low amounts by these newer gas cars...'Nuff said on that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 9:29 PM, Bobby MSME said:

Zero emissions? Was the electricity to charge battery generated by coal, oil or nuclear power, which is 90+% of energy generated in US! The all electric car simply moves the emissions from location A to location B. The only emission free AND SAFE power source is hydro power. Lots of workers have died falling of wind turbine towers building/servicing. Solar power? Does not work so great at night.

 

Do I sense an anti-electric feeling in the room? LOL

 

I consider Nuclear power to be clean, it has zero emissions and there's little to be afraid of. Its clean energy.

 

Wind turbines are cool if you ask me, not sure where the problem is there. You still need a back-up supply that isn't susceptible to low wind periods, but its a great addition to the grid. Nuclear is the obvious choice for a zero emissions redundant backup energy source. There's a great film in regards to this, its called Pandora's Promise, I'd recommend you watch it if you have the time and desire for the topic.

 

I see zero reason to be anti-electric car, the problem has always been storage and price. Electric cars still don't have the range they need at price points people can afford. The Bolt from Chevrolet goes a long way (longer than Tesla, at its price point, might I add) toward making a car that has decent range at a price point many people can afford in the middle class, but its still not a vehicle I could rely on 100% since there aren't enough charge stations.

 

Regarding the heavy metals in a battery, they are all recyclable. Batteries can be recycled over and over and over. So I don't buy these arguments that the tailpipe is just longer, electric cars do have a lot of promise. Just look at the Bolt, it almost makes EV's totally mainstream. If they can just get the battery costs down just a tad more, and more charge stations available, then you will really see a lot of change.

 

There's one thing about electric cars that really destroys the 'longer tailpipe theory' and that is the distribution of electricity itself. You don't need trucks and tanks and burning carbon to deliver the energy as with gasoline or diesel. Electricity operates on a static line, a grid that is in place and doesn't need to be driven around constantly and pumped Just stick the car plug into the outlet and you have instant energy delivery at the literal speed of light from its production source, even if that source is 1000km from you. There is no other distribution source that effective, that efficient. There are astronomical benefits to electric energy delivery and having a common source of the energy produced.

 

I know you might find this surprising, but Quebec is a province here in Canada that has a strong winter season and a majority of homes are heated by electric furnaces. Why? Its dirt cheap and easy. They have a near 100% carbon neutral grid fueled by massive hydroelectric and other green energy methods. Its by far and away the most green energy province. If a colder climate like Quebec can cheaply heat homes in a brisk winter climate, more of us could do that as well. It proves that electric generation can be green and cheap, not one or the other.

 

http://www.hydroquebec.com/residential/customer-space/account-and-billing/understanding-bill/comparison-electricity-prices.html

 

There isn't one single coal generation plant left in Quebec, or Ontario. They've all been shut down. Quebec's grid is so advanced and has so much excess supply, they practically power the entire northeastern coast. Boston and Massachusetts almost entirely imports their generation from Canada. There's little to fear from electric production and the build-up of greener non-coal sources. I toured a Hydro Quebec facility some years ago, there was a direct line straight from the facility to the northeastern USA, a line that was over 1000km long. There's so much excess available and its 100% green.

 

Edited by sparkto

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 9:33 AM, Retired old Gearhead said:

Haha Bobby..couldn't agree with you more! I've been saying that for years. Don't forget the pollution caused by battery disposal with all that nasty stuff in batteries that will need to be replaced every 5 years or so. Gas powered cars are now much more efficient than they were even 5 years ago and the emissions are mostly CO2 which is NOT pollution and the vegetation..trees etc need it to produce our oxygen...only car pollution is the carbon monoxide and that is now emitted in VERY low amounts by these newer gas cars...'Nuff said on that.

 

I'm not an extreme environmentalist, far from it as I like a modern lifestyle and I'm not looking to reduce my usage back into the stone age... But honestly, batteries are recyclable. Every heavy earth metal in them can be reused. They aren't nasty, they are in need of improvement and development, which Tesla and others appear to be improving the price points on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

23 hours ago, sparkto said:

 

I'm not an extreme environmentalist, far from it as I like a modern lifestyle and I'm not looking to reduce my usage back into the stone age... But honestly, batteries are recyclable. Every heavy earth metal in them can be reused. They aren't nasty, they are in need of improvement and development, which Tesla and others appear to be improving the price points on.

My decision to buy a 2017 Spark LS was based simply on cost. The additional cost of buying an electric will pay for my gasoline cost for about 5 years. I never said anything about battery recycling. But I have heard battery replacement is expensive as well.

 

Also keep in mind cost/KW of electricity varies enormously from location to location. Definitely hydro power is the cleanest and cheapest, and because of availability it was cheap in WA state. But if you are in Chicago, LA or NYC, it is brutal expensive.

 

Finally it all boils down to convenience for me. I can refuel 325 miles worth gas in 5 minutes at any of the million gas stations in country.  I do not see near as many charging stations, and recharging battery is longer by orders of magnitude. I would be nervous taking my electric car on any long trips.

 

Finally, not many are aware that many more have died falling from wind turbine towers than have died in nuclear power plant accidents or oil refinery accidents. But the environmental extremists do not like nuclear power or burning fossil fuels! Since our Sun is million times bigger than planet earth, global warming and global cooling has much more to do with Sun cycles than the puny earth. How did the last ice age 15,000 years back end melting 3-4 mile thick ice glaciers on top of Chicagoland? It was the global warming caused by the Sun. I don't think the cave man had enough twigs to cause global warming 15,000 years ago.

Edited by Bobby MSME

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Bobby MSME said:

My decision to buy a 2017 Spark LS was based simply on cost. The additional cost of buying an electric will pay for my gasoline cost for about 5 years. I never said anything about battery recycling. But I have heard battery replacement is expensive as well.

 

Also keep in mind cost/KW of electricity varies enormously from location to location. Definitely hydro power is the cleanest and cheapest, and because of availability it was cheap in WA state. But if you are in Chicago, LA or NYC, it is brutal expensive.

 

Finally it all boils down to convenience for me. I can refuel 325 miles worth gas in 5 minutes at any of the million gas stations in country.  I do not see near as many charging stations, and recharging battery is longer by orders of magnitude. I would be nervous taking my electric car on any long trips.

 

Finally, not many are aware that many more have died falling from wind turbine towers than have died in nuclear power plant accidents or oil refinery accidents. But the environmental extremists do not like nuclear power or burning fossil fuels! Since our Sun is million times bigger than planet earth, global warming and global cooling has much more to do with Sun cycles than the puny earth. How did the last ice age 15,000 years back end melting 3-4 mile thick ice glaciers on top of Chicagoland? It was the global warming caused by the Sun. I don't think the cave man had enough twigs to cause global warming 15,000 years ago.

I provided the Quebec reference just to show that power generation can be done cheaply and in carbon neutral ways, I have no idea why hydro prices would be what they are in New York. I'm not going to sit here and pretend to be a grid specialist when I'm not, all I can say is that there are places where energy is cheap, abundant, and green already. Quebec is one of those places where rates are extremely low and where production is carbon neutral on a large scale.

 

With regard to global warming, I happen to be someone who believes the data shows man has dumped astronomical amounts of greenhouse gases and it seems like a case study where the evidence is overwhelming. It is hard to say that man hasn't created this problem. But what I disagree with in the general discussion about global warming and climate change is the response.

 

We can tackle these problems without the hyperbole and knee jerk mentalities that have currently presented themselves. There's a brilliant European by the name of Bjorn Lomborg who has committed his life to pro-environmental causes, but ones that make sense. He had a documentary several years ago called 'Cool It!' that I would recommend. Much like the nuclear documentary I mentioned, he goes through all the practical, real world applications to combat climate change that don't involve these pie in the sky ideas that are currently being discussed. I would recommend looking into his work, because I for one am a believer in what he's saying. The facts say we're damaging the environment, but the facts also suggest there are economical and beneficial policies we can pursue that don't include cap and trade programs or other things that have proven ineffective.

 

P.S. I am with you on electric cars not quite being ready for prime time. The Chevy Bolt is damn close, all it is missing is a $20k price tag. The truth is, superchargers are allowing electric cars to already get an 80% charge in 10 or 15 minutes. That's more than a 5 minute pump stop, but you have to admit electric cars are nearing the phase where they are almost ready to become a mainstream replacement for gas engines.

 

I'd be willing to buy one, once more supercharge stations become available and once the price points come down just a tad more.

Edited by sparkto

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0