Hesitation and Hard Shifting

[Alex Ridolfi 0]

Okay, a few things to go over here with our ’13 Spark LS.

My wife bought her new Spark right off the dealer floor in Feb of 2013. Since then, she has put nearly 34k miles on it. She has kept up with the oil changes and got the A/C recall taken care of.

There is a Chevy/GMC dealer in our town, but they have a bad reputation for just about everything they do. So, we went out of our town, about 30 miles away, to purchase this car.

Even before we got the recall notice for the A/C we knew there was a problem as the A/C simply didn't blow cold air. So, we reluctantly took it into our local dealer, West Brothers, instead of driving 60 miles round trip to where we purchased it, for convenience sake. They had it for a day, drove it around for a while, and let it sit idle. Then called me with their results. The tech I spoke with said they couldn't find anything wrong with it! Haha! There is obviosly a problem! The A/C was not putting out anywhere near cold air and the compressor was hissing once you turned the car off. It couldnt keep the car cool on a 75 degree day! They had me to come pick it up and they left it with enough gas to get to the gas station....This left a bad taste in my mouth. So, we took it over to the dealer that we purchased it from, Jim Trenary. They instantly knew there was an issue and replaced several parts including the compressor the same day! Air worked better, not perfect, but better. We then got the recall notice for the A/C. It listed several other parts that may need to be replaced. So, we took it back to Jim Trenary's. They ordered the necessary parts in and had it back to us a few days later with the A/C working even better than before!

Now, more recently, my wife was having trouble with the car again. When you put it into gear (automatic), the car would lurch and acted as if it was having a difficult time shifting into gear. She also complained that the car had issues shifting once it was in gear while driving. She noticed that the RPM's would get up higher than normal before it shifted. So, we didn’t feel comfortable trying to drive it 30 miles to our new favorite GM dealer. So, we called them and asked their advice. The person we spoke with said that GM would tow the car in, but only to the nearest GM dealer...West Brothers :(

Since we are pretty close geographically to West Brothers, we just drove it over. They had it for one day and a tech called. He said that they were able to replicate the issue, but GM wants them to replicate it multiple times, and they were having trouble with that. So, we gave them permission to keep it as long as necessary to determine the issue and replicate it as many times as required. The NEXT day, a different tech called and left a voicemail that said they were unable to find anything wrong with the car and it was ready for pickup. We called them back and told them we were not happy and would take it elsewhere. We took it to Jim's and had them look it over. Had to take back roads to avoid going highway speeds to get it there. They had it for about a day and we called to check on it, see what they had uncovered. They said their transmission guy was able to replicate the problem but needed more time to figure out what the problem was. We informed them that they could keep it as long as necessary to ensure the problem would be fixed. The NEXT day, today, they called my wife and told her that she had caused the problem with the car! What?!? He told her that we had missed the 30,000 mile scheduled maintenance and that is what had caused the problem. The car is getting a P0302 error code. There was never had a check engine light or anything else to let us know there was a problem!

The car has 34,000 miles on it! Okay fine, I can accept that we missed the maintenance, because we did. The tech then informed her that the cylinders had excessive buildup inside of them causing this problem. They informed my wife that it would cost $219 to repair the problem with the car to get it running properly again!!

I need to call them to verify what the charge is for. If it is to cover the 30,000 mile maintenance, so that they con proceed with warranty work fine. But if going over 4,000 miles will cause this sort of problem where GM won't repair it under warranty, there must be something else going on with this car!!

After looking up the error code they supplied, I found this out:

What does that mean?

A P0302 code means that the the car's computer has detected that one of the engine's cylinders is not firing properly. In this case it's cylinder #2.

Symptoms may include: the engine may be harder to start the engine may stumble / stumble, and/or hesitate other symptoms may also be present

Causes A code P0302 may mean that one or more of the following has happened: Faulty spark plug or wire Faulty coil (pack) Faulty oxygen sensor(s) Faulty fuel injector Burned exhaust valve Faulty catalytic converter(s) Running out of fuel Poor compression Defective computer

Symptoms sound mostly correct, but this sounds like other issues that should be covered under the 36,000 miles bumper to bumper warranty. Am I correct? Any insight would be appreciated!

Edited August 5, 2014 by Alex Ridolfi

[Greg_E 211]

Are you burning oil? I'll have to check the owners manual because I didn't think there was anything until 50,000. And my car was at the dealer around the 30,000 mile mark and they didn't say anything about a service being needed.

[Angrybird12 61]

I just looked up the maintenance schedule for a 2013 Spark and the only things on it are to rotate tires, change oil if the oils life monitor indicates one is needed, adjust engine drive belts and to change brake fluid. Take your owners manual back to the dealer and show them that no engine service is required at 30,000 miles other than maybe an oil change. If anything is wrong it is not because you did not perform any required maintenance.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Angrybird12

[Greg_E 211]

Thanks for checking the manual.

Send a private message to the customer service reps on the forum, provide name, VIN, phone number, and then which dealer (name and location). They may kick some tail into shape for you so that the dealer fixes the problem instead of blaming you.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Greg_E

[Greg_E 211]

Attaching the service intervals from the PDF version of the book.

[austex04 48]

I suggest sending a pm to customer service with your vin#, and the dealer contact info. This should get the problems at the dealer cleared up. The dealer is looking for a reason to charge you, and I suggest going elsewhere. Sounds like a crooked service dept.

[Alex Ridolfi 0]

Thanks for the info!

When I looked up the manual online, I saw basically the same thing! No major engine maintenance that would quantify what they are telling us!

I am worried about them looking for a reason to weasel out of repairing the car under warranty!

Why can’t there be a dealer that a person can trust?

[Chevrolet Customer Care 25]

Hi Alex,

We're sorry to hear of the difficulties that you are experiencing with your Spark. We have received your private message and we will be responding shortly! Thank you for your patience.

Kristen A.

Chevrolet Customer Care

[Alex Ridolfi 0]

Okay, I need more assistance here fellow Spark owners!

The Chevrolet Customer Care people have been helpful so far, a bit slow to respond, but still helpful. They contacted the dealer to find out what was going on and reported back to me. Said that the car has a misfire and it was corrected! Yay! However, the dealer never called us to tell us it was finished. There was still one question remaining on our end, was the dealer going to charge us for this service still? So, I sent another PM to the Customer Care rep here on the forums, but she never got back with me. So, this afternoon, I called the dealer for a status update and to find out if they still wanted to charge for the work. The man I spoke with told me that it was finished and had been for some time....thanks for the call to let us know...and that there was still going to be a $220 charge! I very politely asked what all was wrong and what they had done to correct it. They said there were several error codes pointing towards multiple misfires in different cylinders. They fixed it by cleaning the cylinders, throttle body, and fuel system. He went on to say that this would not be covered under warranty as it was considered maintenance and that they RECOMMEND that this fuel cleaning service be done every 30,000 miles.

Now, what I need help with is this, since my Spark is still as the shop, does anyone have a manual for a 2013 Spark LS? And does the manual for a 2013 Spark LS say anything about getting the fuel system, cylinders, or throttle body be cleaned/serviced every 30,000 miles? If it does, shame on me, if not this should be covered by the bumper to bumper 36,000 mile warranty plain and simple!

Thanks for any help you guys can offer!

Edited August 11, 2014 by Alex Ridolfi

[Alex Ridolfi 0]

Found this manual:

http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Chevrolet/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Home/Ownership/Manuals%20and%20Videos/02_pdf/02k13spark.pdf

Don't see anything about servicing the fuel system period. Let alone every 30,000 miles.

[WaltK 305]

I don't see any scheduled maintenance for the fuel system, or any recommendations for that matter, as your dealer states. They touch a little on fuel recommendations on pages 9-32 - 9-34. Ask him what page in the owners manual, you will find these recommendations, that you neglected to do. From what I've read, you should be covered by the 5 yr. power train warranty. It sounds like another lemon of a dealership..

[Greg_E 211]

Do you have a case number from our reps here? If so you can call and talk to someone.

Again, my car was just in a shop for a pile of stuff, they never mentioned anything was due which is surprising because it should have had the brake fluid changed and I had some complaints about soft pedal.

I suggest you do not pay for this repair! If you do you have lost a bargaining tool. Also remember that basic warranty is 36000 miles, you are still under that level.

[gitsum 16]

My son has a similar issue with his manual transmission 2013 Spark at 19,000 miles.

Same codes, hesitation and lack of performance. Simplest things first, checked the spark plugs. They were somewhat dirty and a little worn, the gap was way off on one of them. While there is certainly nothing special about the plugs, the part number was hard to cross reference for a match. Cleaned and regapped the plugs, issue fixed. Several thousand miles later the engine is still running perfectly.

As soon as I find a decent iridium replacement, I plan to switch them out on both my Spark and his.

The stock plugs look like some kind of cheapo platinum, maybe even China-crap.

Edited August 12, 2014 by gitsum

[austex04 48]

You didn't come in for a fuel system cleaning, you came in for a problem that is covered by the warranty. Your going to have to fight the dealer now. And the problem that caused the missfire probably was not fixed.

[Alex Ridolfi 0]

Do you have a case number from our reps here? If so you can call and talk to someone.

Again, my car was just in a shop for a pile of stuff, they never mentioned anything was due which is surprising because it should have had the brake fluid changed and I had some complaints about soft pedal.

I suggest you do not pay for this repair! If you do you have lost a bargaining tool. Also remember that basic warranty is 36000 miles, you are still under that level.

I do believe that I have a case open. However, I do not have the case number or phone numer for the Customer Care people. I am not planning on paying for this as I don't see a justifible reason that they should be charging us. However, the car has been at the dealership since LAST Saturday, the 2nd. My wife has been without a car for 10 days now. She works about 45 miles away from home, one way. So, for the last two weeks, we've had to make special arrangements to get my wife and I to work with one car in different towns, with different hours. We are at the end of our rope with this Spark, and GM service in all honesty. I was getting excited about the new Coloarado due out soon, but Chevy is beginning to lose my trust.

I put 149k miles on my '03 Focus and only changed the oil and tires. Never had an issue. But, a brand new car that is suppose to be exciting for my wife to drive off the showroom floor, has been tarnished by the amount of time it has been in the shop for repairs and the run-a-round we get everytime. She is ready to dump it off for a Kia.

[Greg_E 211]

What wrong with another Focus? Or maybe a Fiesta? That said a KIA Rio might be fun, or a Forte. A lot of people say Hyundai Elantra too.

At Ford the 2015 Fiestas are shipping, you might find a leftover 2014 for a deal, just be prepared for the hit you'll take on the trade for your Spark.

You can get a lawyer, but that will put Chevy into a won't talk to you mode, best to give Chevy support another call and see what they are willing to do. Probably you're going to just give up and pay, then go trade the car. Hopefully you will get a Chevy survey where you can tell them what happened on your last service visit and how that dealer is a crook.

[Alex Ridolfi 0]

Just wanted to update everyone here on the situation. The dealer is still refusing to budge on this. And GM Customer Care was unable to resolve it. This is the last message that I received this morning from them:

“ Hello Alex,

I just spoke with Mr. McBride at the dealership for more information on the repair pricing. He informed me that they did two cleanings of the fuel injectors for 109.95 each including a $30 off coupon for the price. This resolved the misfire on their end. Since this is a maintenance repair, this unfortunately is not covered under any warranty parameters. Maintenance includes filters, batteries, injectors, etc. I understand that this may not be the outcome you were hoping for, but the dealerships are in the best position to fully diagnose, repair and provide the cost of repair to the customer. Please let me know when you pick the vehicle up, and update me on how your Spark is doing.

Patsy G

Chevrolet Customer Care”

Defeated, I looked once more in the owner’s manual and found the only references to fuel injectors in one section on pages 9-33 and 9-34. Here is the snippet of the section:

“To help keep fuel injectors and intake valves clean and avoid problems due to dirty injectors or valves, look for gasoline that is advertised as TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline. Look for the TOP TIER label on the fuel pump to ensure gasoline meets enhanced detergency standards developed by the auto companies. A list of marketers providing TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline can be found at www.toptiergas.com.

For customers who do not use TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline regularly, one bottle of GM Fuel System Treatment PLUS, added to the fuel tank at every engine oil change, can help clean deposits from fuel injectors and intake valves. GM Fuel System Treatment PLUS is the only gasoline additive recommended by General Motors. It is available at your dealer.”

Shouldn’t the dealer be recommending this fuel treatment at every oil change then? Looks like they dropped the ball every time we had the car there for an oil change or service! And now we get to pay for it? I still feel that we are being held accountable for an issue that was not of our doing or of maintenance that we missed. That being said, we aren’t going to argue this anymore. We are tired of not having the car and customer service was not able to resolve this in a manner that ensured customer satisfaction for a reasonable request by a customer who has been without their car for 13 days. GM just lost two customers over $220. Anyone want to buy a 2013 Lemonade Spark LS? It has clean fuel injectors!

Edited August 14, 2014 by Alex Ridolfi

[gitsum 16]

I think the dealer's diagnosis of a clogged fuel injector is a load of crap.

Any newer fuel injected vehicle that is driven on a regular basis just doesn't get a clogged injector all by itself. It's possible bad gas can screw with the fuel system, but usually that is caused by water in the fuel. If it was bad/dirty gas, the fuel filter, fuel pump and possibly the tank itself would need to be cleaned. The fuel filter should do it's job and trap any particles before they reach the fuel injectors. Larger particles would clog up the fuel pick up in the pump, unlikely anything would reach the injectors. None of this would cause a specific misfire code from any individual cylinder. It would be almost impossible for one of the injectors to get clogged without any of the other issues caused by contaminated/dirty fuel.

If it was a fuel problem a faulty fuel injector would make more sense, something that would be 100% covered by warranty.

A misfire is much more likely to be an ignition problem. As I mentioned earlier, my son's car exhibited the same symptoms. It was a simple sparkplug issue.

Edited August 14, 2014 by gitsum

[leighmaxwell 6]

What a shame. At least you have lots of documentation if the problem rears its ugly head again. The first time I took my Spark in for the same issue, they told me to switch to better gas as well. Few months later I ended up with a new engine and new warranty on the engine. So far it runs like a champ.

I'm sorry you are not getting better treatment from them.

[Greg_E 211]

I agree with gitsum, you got screwed! Why didn't the dealer explain that this would be a non-warranty repair before doing the "cleaning"? You could probably get the dealer on that technicality if you wanted to pursue it with you state's DMV and probably attorney general's office. But I think you would be better off with a bad survey when Chevy sends that to you, and just ditching the car since your dealer is kind of shady. The dealer issues seem to be adding up to causing Chevy some problems, something that marketing needs to think about.

Be prepared for the trade in value to be low, try ford and see what they will give you, but be aware that the 6 speed automatic in the Fiesta, Fusion, and maybe other models is still having growing pains. The manual shift seems good. The Ecoboost engines are also starting to show some problems with carbon buildup on the intake valves, something to do with direct injection not able to wash the valves clean from the pcv vapors, this is a developing story so take note. It apparently is a common issue with all direct injection cars, but the normal service (spray solvent down the intake while running the engine) seems to wreck the turbos on the ecoboost engines.

[Alex Ridolfi 0]

Well, we got the Spark back last Friday morning. It did seem to run normally on the drive home. By Sunday, we had it cleaned up and for sales signs on it!

Yesterday, the spark for the Spark finally went out for my wife...So we took a little trip to the dealer.....

And she is super happy again! Picked her up a 2014 Jeep Patriot and she is in love!

Had to take a slight loss on the Spark, only around $200. But, that was worth it! Look at how happy she is!

Edited August 19, 2014 by Alex Ridolfi

[Greg_E 211]

I can't blame you. You're lucky that you only had to take a slight loss on the Spark.

[austex04 48]

Congrats! I know I'll be getting rid of mine in the next couple years, and going back to another Hyundai or Kia. This car as well as GM and it's dealer network has left a bad taste in my mouth. Never again....mine has started the same problem you had, but the pcv valve recall also involves replacing the spark plugs and cleaning the throttle body. I won't be paying for anything if I didn't authorize it first.

[Chevrolet Customer Care 25]

Congrats! I know I'll be getting rid of mine in the next couple years, and going back to another Hyundai or Kia. This car as well as GM and it's dealer network has left a bad taste in my mouth. Never again....mine has started the same problem you had, but the pcv valve recall also involves replacing the spark plugs and cleaning the throttle body. I won't be paying for anything if I didn't authorize it first.

We definitely regret to hear this, austex04! Chevrolet relies heavily on customer loyalty and we're sorry we were unable to turn this situation around for you. As you know, we're available via private message, or at socialmedia@gm.com if we can look further into your concerns.

Best,

Amber N.

Chevrolet Customer Care

[Alex Ridolfi 0]

So, here we are...September 13th. Guess what the mail man brought us today? A recall for our Spark! What is it that they want to fix you ask? Why, replacing the PCV valve, cleaning the throttle body and throttle plate, and relearn the idle.It also may be necessary to replace spark plugs. Well,don't that just beat all?

So less than a month ago, GM Customer Care and the GM dealer force us to pay for this same service?!?! This is an outrage and we would like a refund for the service that we paid for unnecessarily!!! I will have to wait for my wife to get home to look at her credit card statement for the exact amount, but it was $219 or so dollars!

What is GM going to do to satisfy a customer who they told a month ago was wrong, and that this service would not be covered under warranty?

Edited September 13, 2014 by Alex Ridolfi