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Statement on U.S./China Trade

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We support a positive trade relationship between the U.S. and China, and urge both countries to continue to engage in constructive dialogue and pursue sustainable trade policies. We continue to believe both countries value a vibrant auto industry and understand the interdependence between the world’s two largest automotive markets.

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$400-500 Billion trade deficit with China EVERY YEAR is not sustainable for USA!

I understand American made cars face import taxes in China.  

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Posted (edited)

All I can say is that I'm not affiliated with any political movement what-so-ever (I'm interested in supporting the conservative leader for our next premier here, but I've supported liberals in the past, I vote for the individual - not the party, although I know those words mean something different to a Canadian than an American interpretation), but right now what is going on in the US is quite frankly disturbing. I'm not saying any alternative option in your last election was great or anything, but what is happening today is just insane. Your President isn't just attacking China, he's attacking Canada too. He's attacking anything he can attack, without regard to facts or world economic stability.

 

In terms of the relationship we have with the US, here in Ontario we're essentially the number one automobile manufacturing jurisdiction in North America. We over-took Michigan some time ago I think in that regard. But the Great Lakes region of Canada and the US work as a single market. Car parts alone will travel cross-border back and forth several times before a car is built in this region. There's a Ford stamping plant in Buffalo, that steel probably makes its way to the Oakville, Ontario facility to build cars and back to the US and so on, so forth probably 5-10 times before a car is built.

 

Bottom line is that we need fewer borders in the world today, not more. It should be easy to move about the planet, not less. The more we isolate ourselves, the more we suffer. That's how I see it. That doesn't mean we should have our doors open to just let whoever come and go, borders are important, but goods and services aren't people. There should be relatively few rules for what comes and goes, that's what makes it a market economy. Shutting that down is what makes things not work.

 

I didn't vote in the American election, and what happens in the US will rightfully be decided by Americans and their interests, but I can't see anything good coming out of a trade war, nor attacking friends and allies. Forget China, fellow North Americans are being attacked and it hasn't went unnoticed. A few screws are loose... The only thing I can see coming at the end of the tunnel right now is the USA is headed toward no longer being a world superpower with a position that could lead in the world, and that is something I'm not sure where we will end up geo-politically. I certainly don't want strong men leading the world, we need to look to democracy and traditional western leadership. That is lacking in today's world.

 

To my American friends: watching this current political setup is like watching a brother slit its wrist. Its hard to watch, but the blood letting is ongoing and non-stop. My only hope is for change in the future, and quick. All I can do is watch and observe from the outside, and hope for the best.

Edited by sparkto

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You obviously do not know how many manufacturing jobs have been exported out of United States to cheap labor countries. Manufacturing jobs are middle class jobs and manufacturing is #1 wealth creator (only others are mining, agriculture and applied research). Retail and service sector consume wealth instead of creating it. Current political setup in America is already working great. Manufacturing is coming back, unemployment is at record low, and paychecks are bigger with the taxcut. We are making America Great Again! 

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On 4/6/2018 at 11:01 PM, sparkto said:

All I can say is that I'm not affiliated with any political movement what-so-ever (I'm interested in supporting the conservative leader for our next premier here, but I've supported liberals in the past, I vote for the individual - not the party, although I know those words mean something different to a Canadian than an American interpretation), but right now what is going on in the US is quite frankly disturbing. I'm not saying any alternative option in your last election was great or anything, but what is happening today is just insane. Your President isn't just attacking China, he's attacking Canada too. He's attacking anything he can attack, without regard to facts or world economic stability.

 

In terms of the relationship we have with the US, here in Ontario we're essentially the number one automobile manufacturing jurisdiction in North America. We over-took Michigan some time ago I think in that regard. But the Great Lakes region of Canada and the US work as a single market. Car parts alone will travel cross-border back and forth several times before a car is built in this region. There's a Ford stamping plant in Buffalo, that steel probably makes its way to the Oakville, Ontario facility to build cars and back to the US and so on, so forth probably 5-10 times before a car is built.

 

Bottom line is that we need fewer borders in the world today, not more. It should be easy to move about the planet, not less. The more we isolate ourselves, the more we suffer. That's how I see it. That doesn't mean we should have our doors open to just let whoever come and go, borders are important, but goods and services aren't people. There should be relatively few rules for what comes and goes, that's what makes it a market economy. Shutting that down is what makes things not work.

 

I didn't vote in the American election, and what happens in the US will rightfully be decided by Americans and their interests, but I can't see anything good coming out of a trade war, nor attacking friends and allies. Forget China, fellow North Americans are being attacked and it hasn't went unnoticed. A few screws are loose... The only thing I can see coming at the end of the tunnel right now is the USA is headed toward no longer being a world superpower with a position that could lead in the world, and that is something I'm not sure where we will end up geo-politically. I certainly don't want strong men leading the world, we need to look to democracy and traditional western leadership. That is lacking in today's world.

 

To my American friends: watching this current political setup is like watching a brother slit its wrist. Its hard to watch, but the blood letting is ongoing and non-stop. My only hope is for change in the future, and quick. All I can do is watch and observe from the outside, and hope for the best.

You obviously do not know how many manufacturing jobs have been exported out of United States to cheap labor countries. Manufacturing jobs are middle class jobs and manufacturing is #1 wealth creator (only others are mining, agriculture and applied research). Retail and service sector consume wealth instead of creating it. Current political setup in America is already working great. Manufacturing is coming back, unemployment is at record low, and paychecks are bigger with the taxcut. 

 

NAFTA is killing US Jobs as well. Factories move to Mexico, and manufacturing goods are brought in tax free in to USA. That only benefits the investor class, and the vast hard working middle class gets the shaft. Finally we have a president who is for America first. He wants free and FAIR trade. Only reason he can be for America First is because as opposed to all other career politicians, he is not in the pockets of the ultra-rich donor class who benefit by importing cheap labor and exporting manufacturing. Because he does NOT need the Billionaires to support him. He is the first really independently rich candidate who ran for president.

 

Let me clue you in about trade wars. The only countries who will lose more in a trade war are those with bigger trade SURPLUSES. Currently USA is running $45 Billion trade deficit with Mexico EVERY YEAR. Bring on the trade war, Mexico! If China wants to fight trade war with us, they buy $125 Billion worth from us while we buy $550 Billion worth from China every year. If China loses those exports, there will be another revolution in China and chairman JinPing might seek asylum in Canada.

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Posted (edited)

Really this is a story of isolationism vs globalism. Mexico isn't draining the US economy, if the US has to fear Mexico then the US has serious problems.

 

The biggest problem I have when talking with a yankee is that the average American thinks the world revolves around the US, that isn't the case. The world isn't necessarily out to get the US and the world isn't soaking the US. China is an emerging power, but they produce cheaply made manufacturing goods. They aren't doing so to soak the USA, they are doing so to bring the hundreds of millions of Chinese citizens out of poverty and into a middle class like lifestyle. GM, as an example, is probably only a profitable company because they are selling cars in China now. They wouldn't have been able to survive the post 2008 bankruptcy without China. You do realize this, I hope?

 

Trade with China is a good thing. It is why your 50 inch flat screen TV is $300 instead of $3,000, which it would undoubtedly be if trade with China weren't a reality or if there were super high tariffs. Mexico certainly isn't out to 'get the USA' and it doesn't even have the capacity to if it even wanted to. There's a bit of paranoia there...

 

I say this as a friend: the US currently has less stature, less influence in the post-WW2 period, and people are tuning the US administration out. It isn't hate of the US (I certainly don't, I'd love to fly to Las Vegas for a weekend getaway, I'd love to tour the Gulf Coast, and the other treasures in the USA), its just more of a joke politically right now. That's the honest truth. If you think Trump is doing a good job, well, you're free to believe whatever you wish my friend. As a friend, I don't think he's helping your country. And again, that's not an endorsement of any other political party or group, just speaking to Trump.

 

Like I said, I'm likely supporting the conservative party in our next provincial election here this year. But then again, our conservatives (PC party) have committed to not destroying our health care system and have vowed to support it. So, I'm comfortable voting PC. Personally, progressives somewhat repulse me in 2018. Every sentence has to contain rape or racism and there is little substance beyond it. Its become a problem in Canada, whereas this used to be a problem with progressives in the US.

 

I just want a competent government that will build some new highways, repave our aging infrastructure, and spend wisely. I'm not an extremist.

Edited by sparkto

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Posted (edited)

Anyway, getting away from China, the fact is your President tried to dump a 300% tariff on Bombardier, which is the key Canadian aerospace brand based in Montreal. It seems to be a decision made without any facts, without any planning, and without any sense rooted in reality:

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/3789724/bombardier-anti-dumping-duty-us/

 

Pray tell me exactly how Montreal-based Bombardier is a threat to US national interests and security? Please, make the case my friend. It can't be done. Here is what a trade war looks like: US stomps and snorts its nose, places a 300% tariff on Bombardier's Aerospace unit. Bombardier can still sell to the rest of the world, the US is just a market it hopes to gain. So, when the US does this to protect Boeing, now all the Canadian airliners will likely pull back their Boeing orders. Air Canada and WestJet specifically might decide to ultimately pull the plug on new Boeing orders, causing the loss of business to Boeing. Who really wins? Bombardier can still sell to other clients, the US suffers because it can't purchase the new CS100-300 series jets that serve key markets for that size of aircraft. Who really wins there? The US certainly doesn't. Bombardier Aerospace has developed some of the most efficient jets in the world for its size, the beneficiaries will be those who purchase the advanced product that is better than the competitor right now.

 

Essentially, Trump decided to dump a huge tariff on a product in a segment and jet size that Boeing doesn't even offer. They aren't even directly competing for the type of customer or flight plans that demand a CS100 or CS300 jet. That's dumb as dumb can get.

 

If Canada is threatening the US, if Mexico is a threat to the US, and if everyone is a threat to the US and no one should do business with the US except for the USA, that's something most of us call paranoia. Stupid, silly paranoia.

 

We're friends and allies for chrissakes. Come World War III there's no better partner you'd rather have than friends like Canada. Don't spit in our faces when there's no need for it.

 

P.S. any tariff what-so-ever isn't free trade. Its restrictive trade. You can't pervert the word free and just say 'free and fair' when it is neither.

 

Lastly, Bombardier will likely be successful with its new CS300 aircraft, but if Trump ultimately gets his way, it will be successful by selling to other countries than the USA. The point is, the US has little control here, its just stomping around and snorting its nose. And Trump looks like a fool doing it. Take it from someone who isn't a left wing extremist, there's a few screws loose in the Trump mentality.

 

As I said with Mexico, if the US has to fear allies and friends like Canada, the US has more problems than I imagined... I know the USA well, and putting a tariff on Bombardier will not convince people to move from Tampa or Phoenix back to Pittsburgh or Mishawaka. The problems in the rust belt cannot be fixed with protectionism.

Edited by sparkto

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Stick to Canadian issues.  All that I need to add is finally we have a president who is a fearless nationalist. Trump is well on the way to make America great again. Protectionism is direly necessary when country is experiencing $1 TRILLION trade deficits every year. I can't wait for China, Mexico, Canada, EU, etc begin a trade war with USA. It simply means we can manufacture $1,000,000,000,000 worth of goods right here which translates into millions of new manufacturing jobs right here in USA. And those who dare to go to trade war with us, lose $1 Trillion worth of manufacturing jobs, because we need almost no raw materials from outside. Energy production in USA is already at record levels.

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Posted (edited)

*facepalm*

 

There won't be a trade war per se, the rest of the world will continue to trade. Whether the US wants to buy those goods is its own choice.

 

Edit: I wanted to mention you can drop corporate tax rates to 0% and you still can't bring certain jobs back that automation or foreign labour can produce cheaply. All you will do is soak your own treasury and be incapable of delivering first-world services to your people.

 

Secondly, if you're so against foreign labour, why didn't you purchase a Chevy Sonic? The Spark is manufactured in South Korea. Its cheaper because its made in South Korea. The Sonic is built with mostly US and Canadian sourced parts in Michigan, wouldn't that have been the car for a self identified nationalist? At the end of the day, we all do what is best for our pocketbooks. Trade can make our purchasing power go a little further, and that's why trade is good.

 

If you want the ultimate nationalist country, go to North Korea. Juche ideology is nothing more than rampant nationalism, and you can see what its done for the glorious North Korean economy as they have one of the poorest in the world.

 

I may not know everything, but I'm old and wise enough to know a few of the basics discussed above. The USA of today isn't the proud, anti-nationalist USA of yesteryear that put every bit of its might in fighting nationalism and defeating tyrants like Hitler. I don't recognize this new wave of nationalism or why its in vogue.

 

Conservatives and liberals of sound mind - regardless of ideology - should come together to fight nationalism and defend democracy and free and open trade. Nationalism is the scourge of earth and only takes wealth away and only promotes war and paranoia. Nationalism has no place in a modern world.

 

LASTLY, if you're super concerned about the hulled-out economies in the US, many found in the old industrial giants like Pittsburgh or places in Michigan and beyond, why not move back to those areas, bring your dollars to them, and stop moving to Florida or Phoenix? I already know the reason. People today are afraid of snowfall for a few months in winter. People prefer living in an oven for half the year. It has nothing to do with politics or taxes or ideologies, it comes down to the fact a lot of people prefer a very hot climate. That has been the factor that has hurt America's heartland more than anything.

 

Personally, I don't understand it. Here in Canada we have terrific summers. You can practically spend every day outdoors in the comfortable 70-80F daily summer temps for months on end. Having such a superior summer season is a perk, and having a bit of snow between December and March is hardly a trade off. But hey, you still have Canadians buying vacation homes in Phoenix so it happens here as well.

 

All I remember is 20 years ago I was visiting New Orleans in August, and I was dripping with sweat barely able to walk at 2am. I thought the night time was supposed to bring relief to high temps. I don't think that is a comfortable climate in my view, having to rely on air conditioning to avoid heat stroke? LOL No one loves temperature extremes, but you can more easily die of heat stroke than of frostbite. At least with frostbite your body quickly tells you to get inside fast and you know to get your ass indoors. LOL

 

Go figure...

Edited by sparkto

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